Curse

bathazard · Jan 23, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Conversiontist is a Charecter who uses her ability to convert enemys and convert to an enemy

Main Attributtes:

Conversion[main]
For Each Point in Conversion your Conversionist Enchanments and Forms last 1%...24% longer.

Convert.
With Each point of Convert you improve asocciated skills

Aggresion.
For Each Point in Aggresion you do 1%...12% more damage with one handed Weapons(this only effects Converionists).

Reaping.
For Each Point in Reaping, Self Enchament rip cost 1%...6%less energy.

Conversionist's use there skills to Copy a and become a form of an enemy...
To Convert a foe to become an Allie via a hex...
and there Whips(One Handed) have half the range of A Spear and are Made to focus small but constent amunts of damage to foes...

Problems-
Mainly PvP i twas thinking a PvE only charecter or mabye it could work but! i think mabye changing the converted Player in PvP to become like a Hero so it is controlable?

Convert and Conversion skills do not work on bosses...

Self Heals i was thinking similar to necromancers blood but then im gonna get flammed for tht so what do you guys think mabye self stripping of enchantments to self heal? or is that to much like a derv?

This is only the beginging i wanted to see what people thought and i'm sorry if someone else has already done this i will ask this to be closed if so...

i was hopping it to look like a Centaur mabye or a half man Half Bear? but the siliva lol what you guys think?

Kyrein · Jan 23, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

........no way in hell
1.the idea would be either extremely weak or overpowered
2.they are not gonna make a class that looks like an animal
3.skill ideas would be very limited

Songbringer · Jan 23, 2008, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

........no way in hell
1.the idea would be either extremely weak or overpowered
2.they are not gonna make a class that looks like an animal
3.skill ideas would be very limited

1. everyone i heard talking about the rit and the derv said they would be overpowered when they would be released.

2. the norn can turn into bears. why shouldn't we look like them?

3. im sure they could think of something

bathazard · Jan 23, 2008, 03:59 AM // 03:59

i spose but mabye if they didn't use skills but be able to control more that one and the when you become the charecter you just get there skills and attributtes so how is that overpowerd? i understand the skillsshortage but still thats what i thought would happen with sins and shadow stepping... so mabye fusing 2 attributtes and making another?

Kyrein · Jan 23, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

its overpowered because with a few skills they can do everything somebody else can do and make one of their enemies attack their own team

humans are not norn....and she isnt suggesting shape shifting

bathazard · Jan 23, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrein

its overpowered because with a few skills they can do everything somebody else can do and make one of their enemies attack their own team

humans are not norn....and she isnt suggesting shape shifting

I think mabye if you became half the enemy so you look like a combination of both the enemy and yourself you gain a choice of 2 of there skills No elite you also choose 2 attributtes not the elites... i think they could always look like there is half of them transperant so as if half is missing?

but this is only a concept...

Kyrein · Jan 23, 2008, 04:26 AM // 04:26

you really want to stop in the middle of a battle to pick out 2 skills and 2 attributes from your enemy,then select 2 skills to replace with them
like i said,underpowered or overpowered
you shouldnt have to make decisions like that in the middle of a fight....you could die in the time it takes you to do that quite easily

bathazard · Jan 23, 2008, 04:50 AM // 04:50

well random skills with the same affect as having 12 in the attributte? what do you prupose they should do instead?

Kyrein · Jan 23, 2008, 05:03 AM // 05:03

uhh..........not make it at all?
you still have to pick skill slots for them
and stealing 2 skills as a main class ability doesnt really seem all that great

bathazard · Jan 23, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

well if that was the case i think you would swap Covert to main...?

Kyrein · Jan 23, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

either way,its just too overpowered
turning an enemy against their team will NEVER be implemented

Performance Pudding · Jan 23, 2008, 07:56 AM // 07:56

what if it made a clone that did had half all the stats?
i think thats kinda reasonable.

Kyrein · Jan 23, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

stats?theyre attributes
that would make cloning melees useless.......unless they have double their weapon req
and you could just spam clone skills and make an army
too much like a MM

System_Crush · Jan 23, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

1 The major issue with foe controllers is that they might be able to go with a team of 8 and each take 4 or more foe controlling skills.
Either they take over all the enemy team and make them stand in the lava or run through coral fields or something. (or have leave 1 foe and have his friends kill him) In which case its a class that is way overpowered.
Or mind control has this 80% fail chance or "after 5 seconds ends prematurely if foe uses a skill" in which case its a useless and weak class.

2 I hope you mean when they take the shape of foes, because race ain't tied to class. If anything class is tried to race but even that is unpreferable.

Quote:

I was hoping it to look like a Centaur maybe or a half man Half Bear? but the siliva lol what you guys think?

For a class that shape shifts into foes I guess ain't bad, could look pretty cool but there ought to be a limit into how big a foe you can shape shift, just 1 joker body blocking as a siege turtle would ruin Aspenwood (even more).

Quote:

Whips [snip] are made to focus small but constant amounts of damage to foes

Whips are non solid weapons! They deal low damage but never at a constant amount.
When you stab someone with a sword, you can't go wrong, they will be hurt, a soft whip can strike someone hard, possibly tearing flesh; but if you I.E. get a unlucky gust of wind, you just genitally stroke them.
So whips have a low minimum damage, as it is a difficult weapon for combat, the low damage symbolizes that something can go wrong when attacking with a whip.
(same goes for nuncucks and balls or swords on chains, you can attack wrong with them, because tey are non-solid weapons)

Quote:

Aggression.
For Each Point in Aggression you do 1%...12% more damage with one handed Weapons(this only effects Converionists).

You are introducing a new martial weapon with no attribute, and this class has a secondary primary attribute to improve the use of 1 handed weapons, WHY?!
Just make a weapon attribute for every1 or an attribute that improves the use of the weapons of foes when you have taken the form of a foe, for every1.
(If weapons are copied at all; which I believe they shouldn't be. Otherwise people would take crappy weapon sets, then switch to their real weapon set at the last moment)

Quote:

Self Heals I was thinking similar to necromancers blood but then I'm gonna get flamed for that so what do you guys think maybe self stripping of enchantments to self heal? or is that to much like a derv?

Why not be original?
You could have a self healing form skill, that for 15 seconds gives you target foes form and heals you for every point of health that foe has more than you, if that exceeds your max health you gain extra max health for the duration of the form.
Another skill to steal healing, hex a foe to be healed for 10...40(50)% less(healing reduc is capped at 50) and you are healed for 10...40(50)% of any healing that foe receives.

Quote:

This is only the beginning I wanted to see what people thought and I'm sorry if someone else has already done this I will ask this to be closed if so

Both shape shifting into foes to get skills and mindcontrolling have been suggested before.
Mindcontrolling has pretty much always failed to be balanced, and the shapeshifting for skill stealing has never been very popular.

You chose hard subjects, but at least you chose subjects, both are something that isn't prevalent in GW ATM, so you get marks for insight.
You picked hard subjects, I feel I should applaud your ambition, if you can pull it off making this acceptable, then it should count double in your bragging rights.

Also I don't think I've ever seen those 2 suggested together, so you get some marks for originality as well.

The CC's naming however... it's bad,

===============Now for some Constructive Criticism===============

The skill stealing:
Skills stealing is generally disliked, because you don't know what foes you will get, so the skills available to you might be ones that in no way are useful to you, even if you had 20 in the connected attribute.
The best thing I feel about [skill=text]Arcane Thievery[/skill] & [skill=text]Simple Thievery[/skill] and the factions & PvE equivalents is that you can lock 4 skills on a foe at the cost of 4 skills of your own, combine with [skill=text]Signet of humility[/skill] and you have a monk that won't be healing any1 for a while.

That is the use of stealing at the moment, making sure foes can't use it, not that you can.
This however does take away a bit much of your own effectiveness.

If you are going to copy attribute scores, you are focusing on making sure you can use the skills; so the general balancing suggestion is not to lock the foes skills.
So then how useful is it to steal skills to use?
Is it any better than just throwing random skills together in a build?
To make it worth while I think there should be something more than just skills, something that makes up for having a bad build.

Also as Kyrein noted, time is of the essence.
Here's how I suggest you make quick & useful skills that steal skills so you can use them:

You can only be in 1 form at a time, so at least the form skill you use gets replaced automatically, saving time selecting that.
Other form skills would useless while in a form, those are replaced as well, if you want to steal more than 1 skill just take more forms. So without investing time you have a set amount of skills you can replace with others,
(even if not all of those steal skills, like the heal I suggested)
You can't steal form skills, that would be useless when they can't be used.
An elite skill is always replaced with the foes elite skill, saving time selecting it.
Each <class name> form skill, has a preferred type of skill it steals;
I.E. by adding 3 different aggressive forms to you build, any steal you preform will automatically steal up to 3 melee or ranged attacks.
A.E. There could be a steal skill called Form of your master, that prefers to steal [skill=text]Charm Animal[/skill] and minion/spirit skills, giving control over any pets produced by that skill, the owner had at that time.
Only attributes that affect your skills you stole would be useful to copy(the passive effects of a primary are of course not applied to you)
If you could take advantage of a foe with 16 in an attribute while you don't have any superior runes that would be bad; the amount of attribute you steal can only be as high as your attribute for the form skill used, even better all attributes of skills you steal are set to the attribute level of skills they replaced, so you can't take advantage of a foes skills without investing attributes into your own class.
Lastly when a stealing skill can't find the skill type it prefers to steal, I'm not sure what should happen...
Maybe it would be replaced with a weak special skill, that offers a skill of the type it preferred to use as a back up skill, so:
A damage-spell stealing skill would give you a 6 sec recharge version of [skill=text]Flare[/skill] if it failed to find one.
A heal-skill stealing skill gives you a 10 energy version of [skill=text]Orison of Healing[/skill].

This way you can prepare what skills you will have, your build will never really be random, if you want healing you get healing, if you want hexes you get hexes.
Now to augment this, I feel each form should nullify your primary and replace the effect with something of the form, like a replacement primary, based on what skills that form is meant for.
So a healing stealing form would give you a primary that helps with healing, not the same as Divine Favor, thats unoriginal, more like...

Skills used on allies recharge 1...2(3)% faster for each % that ally is below 100% Max health.

Another healing stealing form would have another replacement primary.

Gain 1...3(4) energy whenver a condition ends prematurely on an ally in earshot.

Hence you will gain boons from using more forms that steal the same type of skills, as they will fill in for each other while 1 or more are recharging and support each other by giving boons to each of the skills they steal.

On the other hand you can also take several forms that steal completely different skills, the boon you get from each form will allow you to preform different functions depending on the situations requirements, without sucking.
Sacrificing the ability to steal a larger part of a build for being versatile.

As for the mind controlling, I have no idea how to fix it either. Though my Slaver did have the ability to generate slaves out of foes that almost died.
Sort of in the style of [skill=text]Malign Intervention[/skill], I balanced this by allowing foes to be resurrected to cure them from the Slavers control, even by rez shrines so you could never use the hopedead condition to completely incapacitate a member of the foes team.
But nobody liked it, cuz of the pretty real possibility for a controversial charge I guess.

bathazard · Jan 24, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Thanks System Crush...
im not really that good at Designing the charecters skill i prefer the things they do and you really exsplained to me how i can improve in this do back to the drawing board...